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It's common knowledge they always hated each other ...

BBC4 are broadcasting a documentary drama about the lives of Wilfred and Harry. What do you think ? Please let us have any comments about this programme

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Postby thrupnybit » Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:29 am

Thankyou Bob.

have you got a shilling for the meter?
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Postby thatsthatthen » Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:37 pm

Hi

I watched the Curse knowing very little about S&S and its stars. As drama goes, yes it was very entertaining. It seems however that this drama has come at a cost.

I thought it very sad and misleading to focus on the negatives instead of the many positives that must have occured during such a lengthy career together.

The media and those that lap up all this speculation seem to think that all celebs MUST be seen out of hours together partying or they are labelled enemies.

I was 15 when H died and remember W breaking down on TV.
You don't behave like that if you truly despise a person; W was a professional, had he hated H he would have declined the interview.

So the drama was poor in terms of its shaky foundations.

What it did for me, however, is immeasurable. It introduced me to Steptoe and Son. It made me want to know more so I am watching all the series, in order. I'm up to series five now.
With 3 more unseen series, two Christmas specials and two feature films still to go I still possess a genuine childlike excitement.

As each series ends I wonder if the next can possibly be as good. So far I have not been disappointed. I am especially curious as to whether I will still be as enthusiastic about the series when I get to the end - I wonder if I will feel as fatigued as they claimed in The Curse.

S&S is not like any other sit com. Is there such a term as comedrama? What about dramedy?

It may not be the social commentary they claim H sought; but it certainly is social commentary of the time. In fact it's like a wonderful time capsule filled with people you really believe.

I love S&S. I remain very puzzled as to why it's taken me so long to 'get it' ... so I definitely owe the BBC a debt of gratitude.
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Postby thrupnybit » Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:00 pm

Hi there thatsthatthen.

I guess in some ways its much more palatable and more juicier if people want to believe they hated each other, without seeing it for what it was. Emotions must have been strained from time to time but hate is too strong a word for the relationship, surely, in my opinion.

Almost every time i watch S&S i see something different, a phrase or something subtle that makes me think or laugh. Truly something you dont get every day with so many mediocre sitcoms doing the rounds.
Russ

'Why would I want to touch your thrupnybits for, I got thrupnybits o... of me own...'
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Postby thatsthatthen » Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:07 pm

In The Curse H's decision to:
a) do a first series and then
b) do a second series
were depicted as decisions made in anger at his then wife - mere acts of defiance and possibly point scoring.

A professional actor of H's standing would not behave like that.
Furthermore, H was portrayed as being extremely egotistical and arrogant. Somebody tell me he wasn't really like that.

The way that W was portrayed was also particularly unsettling.

If you believed what you saw, he was an unpleasant, unfriendly and friendless, grumpy alcoholic - that everyone seemed to dislike. When he left to do the musical (on New York Broadway - not Catford!) that was welcomed as an opportunity to start afresh with the show - a rebirth. When the Broadway show folded his return was marked with anger and disappointment - as though he were holding them all back.

I think we were the ones being manipulated this time!

Not only that, on a side note, the yard as depicted in the Curse had a simple smooth floor where there should have been dirty old cobbles. Did they over-stretch themselves hiring that bear and run out of money?
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Postby taylorslade » Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:28 am

Sorry to bump this up again but had to have my say here....

My take on Harry and Wilf's relationship in my opinion mirrored that of Harold and Albert...

I could go into great detail WHY I believe this...but I will try and sum it up into a couple of lines....

I truly believe Harry and Wilfred really did love eachother until the day they died. But at times they saw eachother as a physical representaion of their frustrations towards the show. Same with Harold and Albert....they love eachother....yet they take out their frustrations in life on eachother..Harold can't get away from the fact he is a rag and bone man and everytime he looks at Albert, he sees the fate that awaits him. And Albert will make sure of it.
In both cases....love made them put up with eachother.


Sorry to rabbit on guys but hey...if I can't rant about Steptoe here then where Can I do it? :D :D

Shaun.
"Big Bristols , she had."
--Come dancing.
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Postby bob » Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:52 pm

Hi Shaun

Happy to discuss this one again.

I very much agree with your view, professionaly they both became trapped in their roles. While Wilf seemed happy with his lot, I feel Harry being a younger man became frustrated at being trapped in his role. .... Just like Albert and Harold.
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Re: It's common knowledge they always hated each other ...

Postby stephen68 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:49 pm

Thick as a donkey's dongler
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Re: It's common knowledge they always hated each other ...

Postby stuart » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:13 pm

I found that piece from the Corbett family very interesting. Thanks for the link.

I was 7 when H died and I remember watching Wilf on TV. I never believed that they hated each other.
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Re: It's common knowledge they always hated each other ...

Postby Archie » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:58 pm

The whole thing was a Load Of Cobblers I would never watch it again :x
Eeh I wanna see the Nudes of 1964
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Re: It's common knowledge they always hated each other ...

Postby Dirty Old Yank » Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:54 pm

I've never seen it, and never will. It amply demonstrated, despite the beeb's pretensions, their willingness to sink to the level of trashy tabloids, indifference to facts and all.
"I'm a rag n' bone man, I'm not a poxy grave robber!"
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Re: It's common knowledge they always hated each other ...

Postby bob » Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:38 pm

Its a shame, because besides the nonsense, they do tell the story of the show.
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Re: It's common knowledge they always hated each other ...

Postby PhilGlass » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:44 pm

I guess it could have been worse... I just wish they'd change the law and make it illegal to slander the dead. Especially when they have friends and family alive who would be offended by it... I'd love to find out which of the writer's relatives are deceased and call them all disgusting things.
"What do I want to go and see a film about Lesbians for?"
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Re: It's common knowledge they always hated each other ...

Postby stephen68 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:05 pm

Yes and they dress the lies up as "dramatic license" utter bollox
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Re: It's common knowledge they always hated each other ...

Postby bob » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:44 am

Actually Phil while you are correct that a change in the law would prevent this happening, for me, the question has to be about the 'peers and colleagues' (actors) agreeing to tarnish the memory of other actors. It is a shame that some people appear to need a law to make them behave honourably.

I'm not saying they should have refused the role, because it was another actor being portrayed and not, say a politician. But as actors they should have been more aware of the nature of their own craft and realised that just because two people are cast together, it doesn’t mean they have to be bosom buddies. That appears to be Willy’s and Harry’s biggest and only crime.

Based on very spurious evidence, some of which has been proven to be clearly false, both Isaacs and Davis not only took the roles, but went on a promotional tour of the programme perpetuating a deception about members of their own profession, for no other reason than to line their own pockets.

Perhaps they won’t care others say about them when they are dead, but those they leave behind will. Fortunately for the families of Isaacs and Davis, while they are both known and recognised, they will never rise to the stature of Harry and Wilfrid and be so loved by the British public and beyond. Perhaps therein lays their motivation !!
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Re: It's common knowledge they always hated each other ...

Postby Ivor Biggun » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:55 pm

I don't believe they hated each other. They may have gotten tired of working together as both wanted to move on to bigger and better things, but it is hard to believe that devolved into a personal hatred of each other. I saw an interview with Wilf after Harry died and he had nothing but nice things to say about him and he looked and sounded sincere to me.
I thought we'd nick a wreath off one of the graves as we went in.
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