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Is That Your Horse Outside(VF)

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Re: Is That Your Horse Outside(VF)

Postby snodge » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:24 am

Thanks again Pixelsurgeon for your encouraging words which i appreciate.

Sadly i haven't kept the intermediates to further work on due to HD space constraints,
but i imagine it would be easy for someone to encode my version to lossless to do further work if they so wish.

Then they could encode at a much higher bit rate to preserve quality, I doubt the losses would be that visible
with material this bad quality anyway.

Re Homes Fit for Heroes.. Yes its all manual work and also whats pretty evident is the amount of warping which will need attention,
I'm also conscious of the need to retain the quality working from the Mpeg2 source -But i think thats what make's us restorers even more imaginative with our tools and tricks.
I imagine the BBC would have a dig-beta source and that would make a world of difference to the outcome.

Just happy, that's there's someone else, you, restoring and sharing your work... ;-)


That is very kind of you to say :)
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Re: Is That Your Horse Outside(VF)

Postby Dirty Old Yank » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:08 am

snodge wrote:Hopefully its up to Pixelsurgeons/Alexcoles fine efforts and i hope DOY likes it :)

“I’ve never seen anything like it in the world!” (Attenborough describing a 'pushmi-pullyu' in Doctor Dolittle) :o.
I’m a novice at video restoration so please forgive what might seem foolish questions, but if it’s anything like film restoration I’m guessing the specific cause, nature and degree of degradation determines the approach. I’ve often wondered how damage can vary so widely. Example, the opening scenes of “Is That Your Horse Outside?” are fairly crisp but suffer odd, compacted vibrating lines; while “My Old Man’s A Tory” just looks like mud and appears to be the result of something else entirely. Does anyone know how that could happen? Was it caused by mishandling and
or poor storage? Had some tapes been wiped and re-used too often before filming some Steptoe episodes?
snodge wrote:I`m still working on " Homes Fit For heroes" and have to work on it in 5 minute segments to keep my sanity!

Restoration may require weeks, even months of sleep deprived, coffee fueled, frame-by-frame frustration...leading to nervous disorders like facial ticks, fidgeting, involuntarily shouting at inanimate objects & overpriced technology that doesn’t do what it’s supposed to...but that’s no reason to question your sanity :wink:.
Heroes is a favorite episode, good luck with it. The foggy exterior location shots of Chartwell House (not the blue screen) would seem to be most difficult and possibly a lost cause, or is it now possible to sort that too?
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Re: Is That Your Horse Outside(VF)

Postby snodge » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:56 pm

Hi DOY,
The vibrating lines you speak of are a result of a camera being pointed at a studio monitor to record from the monitor
to film-And the camera records the interlace scan lines,
The original Quad video recordings were very high quality using 2inch tape and the BBC made 16 mm film copies from these for export.

Those 16mm film copies were transferred back to video at some point degrading the image even further.

Episodes like " My old mans a Tory" were lost until it transpired Ray Galton and Alan Simpson had copies in their Attic.
These copies were not home recorded as believed and written about on the web, They were viewing copies on half inch video tape
on a Sony CV2000 domestic recorder,The BBC engineer Brian Jenkinson made copies for Ray and Alan from the Quad versions and presumably they had a Sony machine at home to watch them.

The quality of these Sony videos are less than VHS ,and the BFI transferred them for the BBC and tried to tart them up a tad in the process.

These transfers do look muddy looking but its because of the low resolution of the domestic Sony Machine and the transfer itself.

If i recall they also had a weird black field line that kept floating up and down the frame.
This will be a challenge to reduce also.

That Chartwell house scene in Heroes is indeed very grainy and very low fidelity but i will do what i can :)

My coffee machine is doing overtime while I'm working on `Homes Fit For heroes`,... I feel like giving up 6 minutes in
as there is some really bad frame damage but i will persevere as I`m made of sterner stuff :)


Regards
Snodge
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Re: Is That Your Horse Outside(VF)

Postby alexcole » Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:05 am

Taking into consideration the source material you have done as good a job that can be done i think on this episode.
i doub't anyone else will step up and put in the many many hours needed to manually fix the damage to this already poor scan of a telerecording. you've returned a nice video tape look/feel also and that is where the magic for me lies .
well done once more.
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Re: Is That Your Horse Outside(VF)

Postby The Pixel Surgeon » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:20 pm

alexcole wrote:i doub't anyone else will step up and put in the many many hours needed to manually fix the damage to this already poor scan of a telerecording...


After 10 years of restoring mainly telerecordeings, I certainly know, only too well, about the many hours one needs to spend on some of the very poor quality programmes/series episodes, that are left in the archives.

Indeed, I spent over a year, manually restoring The Government Inspector, which stars Hancock. Granted, I could now do what I did back then (when more manual restoration work was needed, and CPU processor power slower), in only a few hours, now.

I'm certainly very grateful to snodge, for what he's now doing... Someone, who's restorations, I'm happy to watch back and keep in my own collection.

I don't plan to give up on restoring just yet, but I feel with my eyes, especially, appearing to need, almost permanent rest from the glare of a computer screen/monitor, I'll now only be undertaking material that's particularly dear/special to me...
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Re: Is That Your Horse Outside(VF)

Postby Dirty Old Yank » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:38 pm

snodge wrote:Episodes like " My old mans a Tory" were lost until it transpired Ray Galton and Alan Simpson had copies in their Attic. These copies were not home recorded as believed and written about on the web, They were viewing copies on half inch video tape on a Sony CV2000 domestic recorder,The BBC engineer Brian Jenkinson made copies for Ray and Alan from the Quad versions and presumably they had a Sony machine at home to watch them. The quality of these Sony videos are less than VHS ,and the BFI transferred them for the BBC and tried to tart them up a tad in the process. These transfers do look muddy looking but its because of the low resolution of the domestic Sony Machine and the transfer itself.

Are you quite certain “My Old Man’s A Tory” (b/w, 1965) was a destroyed episode? We’ve been under the impression for years that BBC had only wiped colour Steptoe episodes from 1970 series’ five & six. If you’re correct, what makes that doubly surprising is My Old Man’s A Tory doesn’t have the very conspicuous Thank You to BFI and the Appreciation Society that all other saved episodes clearly exhibit in the end credits. Also, Ray & Alan had stated in interview (see: Assorted Rags DVD) that they recorded those colour BBC transmissions themselves on four-hour consumption tapes, thus the poor quality, and were collecting dust in Ray’s basement. Without which BBC
re-transmission and those South Bank cinema screenings would’ve been impossible.
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Re: Is That Your Horse Outside(VF)

Postby snodge » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:10 pm

I got my info from this publication PDF
http://www.bvws.org.uk/publications/405alive/pdf/405_Alive_36.pdf


Here is the text from the PDF Page 9

"From Neil ingoe, Feltham:
I really enjoyed issue 35 but could I add a small piece of information
which I regard to be rather important?
Regarding the letter from George Windsor about the 'lost'
Steptoe and Son episodes. Although Pat Hildred may have been
involved in some way with the copying, the main brains and expertise
behind the cleaning and transfer of the tapes was Brian Jenkinson who,
incidentally, is also the person who copied the episodes from the
original 2-inch tapes for Galton and Simpson (I know that he now does
not mind people knowing this).
The reason that the episode My Old Man's a Tory looks poorer
than the rest of the lost Steptoe episodes is because it existed in 405
lines on the original CV2000 tape, and the only way to make a transfer
to 625 lines was by an optical transfer (the signal was far too unstable
to put through a 405 to 625 converter).
I also had the extreme pleasure of being the courier for the two
CV2000 tapes containing four Steptoe episodes when they were found
at Ray Galton's in 1993. As I had to hold them for three days before
they could be taken to Steve Bryant at the BFI, fearful of having our
home burgled and the tapes being stolen, I slept next to them, on my
bedside table!
Andrew, as you can see,I have written the above so that, if
space allows, it can be reproduced in 405 Alive as I felt that Brian
Jenkinson needed mentioning."


I feel the information about the lost episodes is sincere ,and i don't think Alan and Ray recorded the tapes themselves

I need to check my episode of " My Old mans a Tory" to see if it does indeed have the BFI and Steptoe appreciation Society" writing at the end of the video, I haven't seen that episode for ages.


EDIT, indeed you are right DOY,it doesn't have the BFI Steptoe Appreciation Society writing at the end.

Regards
Snodge
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