Play Steptoe and Son GamesContact Us about anything do to with Steptoe and Son

The Unknown Hancock

Your chance to update other users on forthcoming events. Is a new DVD about to be released ? Any special documentaries planned ? Anything you feel would appeal to Steptoe fans

Moderators: Archie, Dirty Old Yank, PhilGlass

The Unknown Hancock

Postby Archie » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:21 pm

It's on BBC 2 tonight @ 7.30 after Dad's Army :o
Eeh I wanna see the Nudes of 1964
User avatar
Archie
 
Posts: 970
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:40 pm
Location: Largs Ayrshire Coast

Postby PhilGlass » Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:33 pm

I was part of this, missed the first 20 minutes. A very interesting documentary (the footage of Ray and Alan dated back quite a few years).

It was extrememly interesting, but the trouble is I can no longer believe anything the BBC calls fact. After their famous inaccurate dramas (I've been told the Hattie Jaques one was just as bad as 'The Curst of Steptoe'...) can we really trust them?
"What do I want to go and see a film about Lesbians for?"
User avatar
PhilGlass
 
Posts: 1124
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:41 pm
Location: Down the football club pulling a stripper!

Postby Archie » Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:45 pm

I started watching the Hattie one, my mother was round that night and it was full of unnecessary dirty scenes :shock: so I changed channels. It was repeated a week or so later - but I didn't bother watching it !.

It was amazing just how much Hancock had aged, lost weight grey hair etc in his final years and he was only 44 when he died. Truly a tragic bloke :(
Eeh I wanna see the Nudes of 1964
User avatar
Archie
 
Posts: 970
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:40 pm
Location: Largs Ayrshire Coast

Postby bob » Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:54 pm

RE : Hattie Jaques

My wife has read quite a lot around this area including John LeMesurier's autobiography where he talks about his time with Hattie. She watched the show with me and said that everything appeared to ring true.

Sadly the difference seems to be that where with Harry. H Corbett it can be proved that the "facts" presented in the Curse programme are simply wrong and deliberately misleading, nobody has said that about Hattie and this show.

Lots of friends and contemporaries say, they shouldn't have done it, but I have not seen any record of anybody saying that it isn't true. I have heard a number of interviews with Eric Sykes recently, who is naturally very fond of Hattie and wants to protect her reputation, but he has always stopped short of saying it is untrue, preferring to change the subject.

Of course there was a lot more to Hattie and John LeMes than just this sad episode, but sadly it does appear to have more than a grain of truth to it.
User avatar
bob
Site Admin
 
Posts: 991
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:04 pm
Location: Bradwell on Sea, Essex

Postby PhilGlass » Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:38 pm

Bob, I read on another forum that the stuff on hattie was true, but it was the way John Le... was portrayed that was inaccurate, but I will take your word for it as I don't know much about them myself. I heard that he came across as a total b*****d, wqhich looking at his friendship with Hancock he clearly wasn't.

Interesting discussion.

Such a shame with Hancock, I neevr knew till then that he was only 44 aswell.
"What do I want to go and see a film about Lesbians for?"
User avatar
PhilGlass
 
Posts: 1124
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:41 pm
Location: Down the football club pulling a stripper!

Postby bob » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:59 pm

Phil

I didn’t get the sense of John LeMes coming across badly in the show, if anything he came across very sympathetically. He allowed Hattie to divorce him for adultery when in fact he only started his relationship with Joan after Hattie had started her relationship. Also he was cuckolded in his own home and was consigned to the spare room while Hattie shared the martial bed with Schofield.

John was a true gentleman taking the blame, when in fact he was relatively blameless.

Although not covered in the Hattie film, what was even sadder was that Joan then went on to leave John after having an affair with his best friend Tony Hancock !!

All through these episodes John was unbelievably forgiving and understanding. I would have beaten the living crap out of both of them !!!
User avatar
bob
Site Admin
 
Posts: 991
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:04 pm
Location: Bradwell on Sea, Essex

Postby PhilGlass » Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:18 pm

Then I retract my statement, I have been given erroneous information! Thanks Bob.
"What do I want to go and see a film about Lesbians for?"
User avatar
PhilGlass
 
Posts: 1124
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:41 pm
Location: Down the football club pulling a stripper!

Postby bob » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:18 pm

Hi Phil

This is just the evidence as I see it, please don't feel obliged to retract or anything like that. For me it’s not about winning any forum debate, but simply exploring the every day lives of the people we watch and understanding the occasional false images we create about them. In the film about Harry, it was clearly provable that his relationship with Maureen Blot was not the cause of the break-up of his first marriage. The curse film creates the impression that Maureen arrives at Harry’s home, pregnant. We are invited to believe that the hasn’t seen Maureen for some time and that the house is the one shared with his first wife Sheila Steafel. I just didn’t happen that way.

I am quite prepared to be wrong and would welcome a good old forum posting debate on this. I have been on forums where self appointed moderators have effectively quashed any opinion that doesn’t reconcile with their own and would feel awful if I had done the same on my own forum.

Getting back to Hattie and John, while in the light of current evidence I feel very sympathetic for John, there is a part of me that has to accept that he was in many respects a very week character. Indeed I believe it was his willingness to accept the unacceptable that laid him open to such poor treatment in the first place.
User avatar
bob
Site Admin
 
Posts: 991
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:04 pm
Location: Bradwell on Sea, Essex

Postby PhilGlass » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:38 pm

Oh Bob, to me it's nothing to do with winning or losing a debate... just about getting the truth out there...

John Le Mes... seems a pretty weak soul to me - they walked all over him. As you said, most would have beat the living crap out of them, but I guess he was TOO nice. Is that a bad thing?

If I am a fan of someone, I embrace hearing about the bad side of them, I want to paint an accurate portrait of the man or woman I am admiring, as long as it's true. of course, we can't take autobiographies as true either, we all have unrealistic views of ourselves just as muc as others do.

My retraction was simply based on the fact I was going on second hand information. When that happens, I take info from all different aspects and try and piece it together in a way that pleases me. I am too quick to pass an opinion here on something I've heard without actually backing it up.

As a Presley fan I am used to inaccurate stereotypes taking over from people who don't actually know what they are talking about and as I didn't see the show myself, I put myself in that category. I was just going off second hand information.

As for the C**ts of Steptoe (fill in the blanks yourself, referring to the producers), it was blatantly a lie... I conceed there is a huge difference, any drama is of course made for dramatic effect, that's the writer's job, but don't make it up!!!!!

Love this topic, I'm learning lots...
"What do I want to go and see a film about Lesbians for?"
User avatar
PhilGlass
 
Posts: 1124
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:41 pm
Location: Down the football club pulling a stripper!

Postby Graham_S nli » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:17 pm

When we look at the Curse.... we should look at a precursor from around 10 years ago...

a documentary called "When Steptoe Met Son" which first highlighted the alledged problems that Harry and Willy had with each other....

Ray and Alan although they gave interviews for it they refused to say that Harry and Willy had any relationship problems as they felt it was untrue so were sidelined quite severely so an Australian entrepeneur who put of the Aussie tour gave his "account" instead, no doubt for the filthy lucre offered (You can't let something like the truth get in the way of a good story! and they needed to be able to sell it to Channel 4?).....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Steptoe_Met_Son

I fairly certain it's been cut into "10 minute chunks" on youtube if your interested....
Graham
User avatar
Graham_S nli
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:06 pm
Location: Northolt, Middlesex

Postby Graham_S nli » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:27 pm

PhilGlass wrote:As a Presley fan I am used to inaccurate stereotypes taking over from people who don't actually know what they are talking about and as I didn't see the show myself, I put myself in that category. I was just going off second hand information.


I watched a documentary repeated not long back on I think 4.... about Frank Skinner buying an "authenticated" and very expensive "Elvis" shirt which was shot around 98 and him going to Memphis to find out if it was REAL....

It was a blue velvet shirt used alledgedly at an early concert that after extensive checking turned out to be conterfeit from an unscruplous bodyguard who supplied a lot of "genuine" Elvis memorabelia for the filthy lucre entailed.....
Graham
User avatar
Graham_S nli
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:06 pm
Location: Northolt, Middlesex

Postby PhilGlass » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:56 pm

Graham_S nli wrote:
PhilGlass wrote:As a Presley fan I am used to inaccurate stereotypes taking over from people who don't actually know what they are talking about and as I didn't see the show myself, I put myself in that category. I was just going off second hand information.


I watched a documentary repeated not long back on I think 4.... about Frank Skinner buying an "authenticated" and very expensive "Elvis" shirt which was shot around 98 and him going to Memphis to find out if it was REAL....

It was a blue velvet shirt used alledgedly at an early concert that after extensive checking turned out to be conterfeit from an unscruplous bodyguard who supplied a lot of "genuine" Elvis memorabelia for the filthy lucre entailed.....


Before that documentary even began most fans knew that Blue shirt (froma very significant 1956 concert) had already been sold to dealer Paul Litcher way back in the 70's. Litcher is the most elusive and qualified expert on the subject and once he has something, it doesn't get sold again. The actual shirt is currently on loan ina museum. The one Frank bought is currently on-sale in Primark lol

One of Elvis' own family was recently jailed (a cousin) for selling fake memorabilia. Of course, she didn't give the fans their money back!!

As for the Steptoe progs, I'm going to alter the page on my site that deals with this, breaking down every little piece of the program and answering back. Of course I have contacted those invovled (or the best I could) asking them to defend themselves with sufficient evidence, as they must be insulted by all of this talk about them lying... but they never respond... surprise surprise...

I've even thought of making a documentary about those two programs, showing the other side of it, I just don't have the time at the moment.
"What do I want to go and see a film about Lesbians for?"
User avatar
PhilGlass
 
Posts: 1124
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:41 pm
Location: Down the football club pulling a stripper!

Postby Archie » Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:33 pm

There are a lot of con men when it comes to memorabilia, when Farrah died they were selling her famous red swimsuit poster on E bay - as "Genuine" 70's posters, average price £500 !.

You can still buy identical posters via Amazon UK for a tenner. I bought one to replace a genuine 70's poster that got "lost" :roll: last time I moved house.
Eeh I wanna see the Nudes of 1964
User avatar
Archie
 
Posts: 970
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:40 pm
Location: Largs Ayrshire Coast

Postby Karl » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:17 pm

Back to subject-did anyone record "Unknown Hancock",i did not realise it was on,i would really like to see this............
"The only thing worth 'avin is that porcelain group on the mantlepiece behind your elbow......." "'Aint you got any woodbines?.. "
Karl
 
Posts: 164
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:11 am
Location: "the Skinners Arms"

Postby Archie » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:32 pm

Karl; it is on YouTube under' The Unknown Tony Hancock' it's in several parts.

If you have 'Real Playerr' etc you can download it and watch it on your computer.
It's quite good :o
Eeh I wanna see the Nudes of 1964
User avatar
Archie
 
Posts: 970
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:40 pm
Location: Largs Ayrshire Coast

Next

Return to Share your news

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

 

 

Testing