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Too 'Un-PC' these days?

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Is TV too PC?

Yes, is up to us to choose what we watch
24
96%
No, leave such prehistoric viewpoints where they belong
1
4%
 
Total votes : 25

Postby PhilGlass » Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:30 pm

Today Challenge repeated an old episode of Barrymore's "Strike it Rich" and his impersonation of a chinese man he did would certainly have made people cringe if it was done today.

"Alwight? - you're certainly not All White are you?" came from an earlier one. But it was BLOODY FUNNY.

I guess it all depends on social context. In 1963, writing "No wogs" at the end of a letting advert was acceptable, but using the word "bleeding" caused uproar. Let us not forget HOW controversial Harry's use of the word actually was.

fast forward to 2011, it seems perfectly acceptable to sexualise children on tv if Simon Cowell can make a few quid out of it, yet innocent jokes about race are not.. unless the comic is black.. then they can go on for hours about how being black is better. When a white stand up says being white is better, he's a racist.

I've said it before, every television set has a built in censorship button - it's called the "off" button. If you dont like what you're watching, change the channel or turn it off. But don't spoil it for the rest of us.
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Postby Karl » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:25 pm

Interestingly,the classic un-pc sitcom "Love thy nieghbour" Boxset is re-released today,i'm tempted as,i only have a few episodes of this.I wonder how much editing it'll suffer?
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Postby Dirty Old Yank » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:23 pm

Was watching Are You Being Served for the first time recently, the Hand of Fate episode. In it there's a Japanese stereotype, a customer that cant pronounce his R's and exchanges endless "ah so"s and bows with floor walker Capt Peacock. It easy to imagine this scenario wouldn't be done these days, but for the wrong reasons. The fellow who wants to purchase a "lain coat" with his "cledit cahd" isn't being ridiculed, it's the Grace Bros employees that are being foolish by resorting to "whatee-wantee?" etc. Very funny bit.
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Postby bob » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:27 pm

Went to see Reginald D Hunter recently. He discusses racism quote a bit and uses the N words.

His says that white people will often ask him if something they have done is racist, his reply is "was there hate in your heart when you did it". A common sense approach in my view
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Postby PhilGlass » Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:04 pm

Reginald D. Hunter once said something I think was brilliant, he said "Discrimination is wrong, even against racists". Great quote.
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Postby winstonlegthigh » Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:18 pm

Perhaps its not merely a case of PC and a lot to do with the fact that, sadly, there is a great demographic that probably wouldn't get Steptoe in this day and age.

Personally i think the whole PC thing is a load of bollocks but i do think a great many people use the phrase "why its political correctness gone mad!" as an excuse to be a bigot.
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Postby bob » Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:08 pm

OOHH winstonlegthigh

A bit controversial. The real interesting point, for me, is that in the non PC days, it was the stupid outdated views of Albert Steptoe, Alf Garnet and others that made us realise what real bigots sounded like. Alf Garnet was funny, really funny, but we laughed at him, not with him. Those people who laughed because they thought what he said was true, only ended up exposing themselves.

In my view PC teaches people to hide their true feelings and seek to satisfy them in other less savoury mediums. Comedy can be a great way to explore things that at first may be difficult to broach. I would like someone to write a comedy where a black bloke sets up a branch of the English Defence League in Brixton. I’m sure it could be really funny as well as teach us all things about our society which need to be resolved.

PC has moved us back to the 1950’s where nobody said anything controversial and all TV people were just unreal stereotypes. The make up of Britain in the 21st Century is completely different, gender, race, religion and culture..wise.

PC prevents us moving forward.
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Postby winstonlegthigh » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:55 am

I agree with you about PC being something thats dangerous but i don't think it is altogether without purpose. If it hinders art and the freedom of expression than yes but at the same time, it is a guage for appropriate behaviour in a given period, a lot of it's common sense.

I am aware of the laugh at them and not with them thing but at the same time, it's a fine line to tread and you cannot speak for everyone in terms of laughing at him and not with, a lot of people simply didn't get that, absurd as it may seem and actually sided with him. Warren Mitchell tells the oft told story that a bunch of skinheads came up to him once going oh we love how you take the piss out of niggers and pakis etc and he went no mate, actually, i'm taking the piss out of you lot. Point being, not everybody took it or even grasps notions of satire etc.

PC is a load of crap but it didn't just fall out of the sky, i mean, times change and with that, so do accepted modes of behaviour, you could probably call a 8 yr old indian kid a little sambo boy in the 30s and it'd be quite normal but to do that in this day and age is something else altogether.

What i dislike about PC is it's attempt to try and create a sort of society of robots and the notion of a sort of uniform standard of behaviour which effectively deletes individuality and eccentricity and also, words are just words, it's the intent behind them that is of import, not the word itself, you can't ban language, its sort of like banning communication.

And to the guy pointing out that black people joke about race too, well yes they do and frequently but it's in a totally different context and means something totally different. with black people, specifically American as it's slightly less frequent over these Isles, it's about empowerment. i mean you're talking about a race that as little as a handful of decades ago didn't have the same rights as everyone else, thats the same as being considered sub-human, hence, socially, culturally, the black expierience is different to the white.

And also, you can in fact do race humour as a white person i mean, Chubby Brown is still about, isn't he, bless him. I understand though that it is not as frequent. Humour is used to soothe and heal this stuff and as such there is a world of difference between a minority taking the piss out of itself or attempting to uplift itself and then applying the same logic to, say, the minority getting the piss taken out of it from the outside.

I agree with the principle behind your point though and i truly hope to see a day whereupon we can all just take the piss out of each other but, unfortunately, human history is not at that point quite yet. It's a shame but it is what it is, i'm afraid.

As far as the gentleman in Salford and the thing about letting property, i work in property and i can honestly tell you that EVERYONE is racially specific in property and if not everyone then a frightful load of em. I mean, i'm pakistani by parentage (i was born in Luton) and people have come in and said to me things like "no offence to you or anything but i'd rather not have any pakistani's in my property" and the same applies in the other direction where asians specify no whites etc etc, it's all there, people are just more cagey and non specific about and, y'know, skirt around their words instead of just being blunt about it.

And Steve, as far as not understanding why 'poof' is offensive, i'm not sure whether you're being serious and to be quite honest, i use the word REALLY frequently, as in TONS, if i see someone straining to lift something (amongst friends of course) or if someones nervous to go chat up a bird or...y'know what i mean, every place it can possibly be used, i use it but i don't not understand that it is not a clinical benign term of the english language to denote a homosexual it is in fact as insult to call someone a poof, it's not like...gay or homosexual. If you call them a poof or a bender or a uphill gardener or whatever, it's an insult, it's not the just a way to refer to them :lol:

As far the editing, that just gets on my raving tits :lol: But at the same time, i think it's absolutely criminal to cut chunks out of something that is essentially the creative vision of an individual or individuals, it's sort of like going "y'know, that Mona Lisa bird, she's a bit of a looker but them eyebrows have got to go!" it's so presumptuous and fascist and ridiculous.

But again, this is establishment television here and i don't expect them to leave that stuff in, it's a different day to when i was growing up (i was born in 1983) and things simply aren't acceptable nowadays like they were before, this is quite normal.

I'll give you another example (one that might possibly make a few forum members think quite a bit less of me but hey ho, here goes) i've been done for drink driving. twice. And it was not until i got done for drink driving that i realised how some people react to it so viciously. Now, i know drink driving is stupid and reckless and it risks peoples lives and is a totally totally unacceptable thing to do but see, at the same time, i grew up from a very young age among people who went "ahhh, it's a load of bollocks, back in my day we used to do 10 pints and drive home" and "you've just got to have the gut for it" and "ahhh, bunch of fuckin nancy boys these days can't hold their booze is what it is" now, yes, end of the day, the buck stops with me etc etc but i grew up looking up to people like Oliver Reed and Keith Moon and it's silly to think that that had no effect on the way my attitude was shaped. That and the old boys down the pub regaling me with tales of getting stopped by a copper rat arsed pissed and being told to "mind yourself, won'tcha?" and let off free.

The point of my writing all that out was it's perfectly understandable how a beacon of the establishment such as the BBC was do that sort of editing. My personal feeling is though, show it in its entireity or not at all. Or show it late at night, after 9 if you like.

Blimey, that was lengthy :lol:
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Postby bob » Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:22 am

Yes but a good read though !!!!
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Postby PhilGlass » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:43 am

A fantastic and very interesting post winstonlegthigh.

Can I just say, when I mentioned earlier about the polish adverts, I wasnt implying that any particular group is more racist than the other, or less, I was trying to say that society IN THAT AREA readily accepts that the majority of the population, ie, the polish, are allowed to openly reject the ethnic minorities in the area (the white english) yet when the ethnic minority in the area attempts the same, there are double standards.

I think I wasn't clear enough in that comment.

I do agree that not everyone gets that we are laughing at the ignorant in these jokes, not at the colour of someone's skin or their religion, but we can't stop making jokjes just because some people are not that clever.

As for poof, I totally get your point. Gay people actually adopted the word "queer" to mock each other which totally ruined it when people tried to use it to be offensive to them. I do think that a lot of the poof references in Steptoe are meant the way you described - like the guy in the bedarama, Albert is referring to the fact he is camp and smokes silly black cigarettes.
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Postby bob » Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:36 pm

Hi Phil

I could be wrong, but I'm not sure "queer" was a term devloped by gays for gays. There was a time (pre-gay obviously) when to be homeosexual was to be queer i.e. not normal.

I hate the term gay, but it is, in my view, better than queer.
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Postby PhilGlass » Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:42 pm

Again, I'm not being clear, sorry..

They didnt develop it, it was developed as an insult Im sure, but they kind of took it over, demeaning the offensiveness in some ways, which is good.

Hmm I seem to be digging a hole here!
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Postby winstonlegthigh » Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:28 pm

Can I just say, when I mentioned earlier about the polish adverts, I wasnt implying that any particular group is more racist than the other, or less, I was trying to say that society IN THAT AREA readily accepts that the majority of the population, ie, the polish, are allowed to openly reject the ethnic minorities in the area (the white english) yet when the ethnic minority in the area attempts the same, there are double standards.


Yeah, no, that was understood, i just have a tendency to ramble a bit and go off on tangents :lol:

I do agree that not everyone gets that we are laughing at the ignorant in these jokes, not at the colour of someone's skin or their religion, but we can't stop making jokjes just because some people are not that clever.


Definitely. But see this is the nature of contenious comedy like this that, if you're going to adapt a medium such a comedy or jokes if you will as a means through which to express or address serious contemporary issues you have to take these sorts of things into account, see you have to draw a line somewhere between 'it's just a joke' and 'this is capable of effecting society". I'm not sure if i'm making 100% sense here but...basically it's a not serious thing by which you can effect or comment on serious issues but there are those who would say that it does more harm than good because we're talking about predudice and, by extension malice y'know? So like 40 or 4,000 can get the nature of Johnny Speight or Galton and Simpsons comedy but if the minority that DON'T get it and think it's a celebration of racism go out and actively behave on the basis of it they can do a lot more harm than the majority that 'get' the joke.

But like you say, you can't not have a laugh because of these things but these i think are the contemporary concerns. My feeling about the matter is that EVERY joke should be made, from Frankie Boyle to Max Miller but i'm also aware that, y'know, there are certain outcomes of this that will not be positive but hey, thats life y'know, i think the good outweighs the bad in these types of situations.

Also, i think Englands quite ashamed of parts of its past. Like any country, any historical thing, the things that are OK and can be construed as expressing something more elevated than the common denominator, in whatever round about way, these things are celebrated and editorialised and taken towards theatre etc but there's a WHOLE cross-section of British comedy, i'm talking of the Carry On, Robin Askwith, Sexcapades variety that is almost completely ignored by the history books, Benny Hill you could put in there...and these are like, serious noises in comedy in their day, that are virtually ignored, written off and treated like anathema, i believe the Daily Mail referred to them as "the darkest days of British Comedy" well excuse me but go do one Mr Daily Mail writer bloke, i find that stuff hilairious, sorry, y'know, sexism, mysogny and all that are negative things but at the same time how can you be expected to understand what you are if you ignore what you were and where you came from?

And it's THAT that i find despicable about PC, this horrid notion of like, hiding from your own identity, quite frankly they can naff off with that and i hate the virtual ignoring of Til Death Us Do Part as a result of this, it's satire for chrissakes, it's just mutual shame and embarassment y'know, the modern razor hair-cutted pakistani lad is somehow ashamed of his father the shopkeeper with the funny accent and modern day suit wearing yorkshire lad is ashamed of his old cap wearing pipe smoking houndstooth jacket wearing old man who took the piss out of wogs and nig nogs and he don't want to bring his new posh bird home to him, it's almost like mutual pretence, an interesting social phenomena really.

But end of the day all anyone ever fools is themselves, i just think it's sad that we're at this state, y'know, they reckon themselves so much bigger and better and cleverer than those that came before but they're really that ill-equipped at life that they can't sit in front of a telly and watch a performance of fairly weightly social significance co-joined with side splitting hilairity because the people potrayed aren't a reflection of their own attitudes.

The message there is be like us or naff off. This is the heart of racism itself, not being able to tolerate those that aren't like you for that reason only. What is racism after all if not a predudice? I rate Johnny Speight and Galton and Simpson, they had big brass balls making comedy like they did, intelligent without being inaccessible, pointed without being patronising and thoroughly thoroughly hilairious.
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Postby Ivor Biggun » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:52 pm

Archie wrote:I bought 'It Aint Half Hot Mum' series 8 a couple of weeks ago and the Sgt Major constantly refers to the concert party as Poofs, and also insults the Japs :shock:

Not much chance that the series will be shown on gold ! :o


The biggest point of contention with IAHHM, I think, is it's portrayal of the natives as being less intelligent than the British (the Char Wallah and Punker Wallah in particular) and the fact that they blacked up a white man (Michael Bates) to play the bearer. I know Bates was born in British India and was familiar with many of the languages and customs of the people, so no white actor would have been better qualified for the role, but it's still blacking up which is considered insulting. It's not the fault of the BBC, I know, because there weren't enough actors of that particular ethnicity working in Britain at that time, but try explaining that to anyone who takes offence at it today and see how far you get before the Race Relations Board is called in.
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Postby nunky » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:27 am

Be it fat,thin,colour of skin,accent,country of origin,colour of hair and many more differences in the members of the human race, man (and woman-not wishing to be sexist) always has and always will find humour in these differences.

When it becomes a form of bullying it becomes questionable. In most comedy scenarios it is the person with the narrow viewpoint that turns out ridiculed as in Love Thy Neighbour.
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